What’s really got me today about the book is that no one can write a true book about sex. No one can get the whole story.

I’m uncomfortable with the idea of sexual truth, of the importance of telling it. For too many people, to do so would be life-threatening. I used a pseudonym on my blog from 1998-2004 for that reason — because I wanted to tell the truth as best I could without linking my offline life to it. Over time, I took back my whole name. (That’s Grant.) I’m open about more than I could have imagined I could sustain. That’s maybe brave? But there’s no way I can hold anyone to that standard. Sometimes just showing up where and how you can is the bravest thing.

The stories we are getting — almost more than we can publish but keep going — are as much the stories of writers working out sex in a kind of public as they are moments of individual discovery, regret, disarrayed memory.

The win here — not that art is about victory — is more for storytelling than for sex.

Tell us we’re good at writing, not being “brave” about fucking.

(posted in haste from a sidewalk in San Francisco)

Meaghano, I may have only contributed what looks to be $1, but as my account was already negative $3.25 I will receive a whopping $35 overdraft fee. It was worth every cent!

Tonight we added a new Backer level to Kickstarter: for $10 more, you can send a book to someone who otherwise wouldn’t be able to order it.

Because last year around this time I don’t think I could have afforded to buy this book.

Because I think I had something like 15 overdraft fees in 2008.

Because we are doing this so the book can get to people like this ladybird who has my heart bursting, and because I don’t want any more overdrafts on my conscience and because the entire reason we are doing this project is to bring these stories to people who are excited to read them!

So if you have already given us more than necessary, to support the endeavor, or to make sure we met our goal— well, we did it! And now we are getting a little more romantic, a little more idealistic, because we can (literally) afford to.

One of our goals, if not our primary goal, is to reach and connect with people who are reaching back and looking to connect, just like us.

I don’t like the idea of leaving anybody out of that.

And I know Overdraft-Me would have really enjoyed these stories I spent the day reading yesterday, that gutted me and made me laugh and filled me with awe. Which, BY THE WAY are really, really wonderful, each of them! We have about 25 submissions now— almost all of them! can you believe it? we have a lot of interviews to do!- and I can say with conviction (and humility!) that we have quite a book on our hands. Some are funny and about being young, some are about learning things about ourselves, coming into them, only when we’re older; all of them are about things we may never really wrap our heads around, they are all an interrogation of sorts, and they are real and honest and individual, because that’s what sex is.

So if you’d like to share that with someone who might not otherwise be able to curl up in bed and have a few hundred revelations and heartwarms, you can give $10 more and get a book for yourself and someone else, too (or, if you already backed with extra $$, just switch to this level. you can do it! i promise. kickstarter is pretty magical that way).

Once we get some people in this backer level, we’ll put out a call for the Overdrafters to email us, and we’ll send ‘em some books, too.

BECAUSE THIS IS SO AWESOME AND IT’S HAPPENING. AND WE ONLY HAVE TIL THE 1ST!

Hi, books.

You don’t exist yet, I know it. But.

I know what you look like. You’re the same color as me (because, here’s a secret, part of me is on the cover) and you have a plain brown wrapper but not the kind that hides anything. You feel good to hold. You’re the right weight and you fit in my purse.

You are my every reading-too-much ray gun and wanting to do that myself fantasy. You are all those Cocteau Twins records laid out on the floor. You are me doing graphic design in a word processor not meant for it that no one even makes anymore. You don’t require rubber cement but you remind me of how it smells. When I run my hands over you, nothing comes off on my fingers.

You are girls who sent me zines. You are late nights reading the internet. You are the crackle of gchat but none of the messy formatting. You are sure of yourself. You are discovered in thrift stores. You are all these teenage embarrassments and all the ones I won’t write ever.

You are forever, a little bit.

Love you, you 323 of 323.

ps: We want to have a party for all of you backers. (Did you get this far?) The night of March 3, in New York. More on that once we decide exactly where it is we plan to crash. There won’t be books yet, but all of you who can make it and us.

It’s a wild Saturday morning over here at Coming & Crying HQ, which today happened to be a coffee shop in Ft. Greene where Melissa and I spent the morning scheming excitedly and finding out we hit the $10k mark (!!!), but more on that later.

I fell in love with Tao Lin’s very particular brand of hilarity at a reading at WORD, the “bookstore of my dreams,” where he read an imagined Gchat conversation between Dakota Fanning and Haley Joel Osment (!!!)(an excerpt, I think, of his forthcoming novel, Richard Yates).

From there I found his Nerve story, “Sex After Not Seeing Each Other For A Few Days,” and my affection for his very weird, painstakingly self-aware, scare quote-ridden journey towards truth (or the oftentimes more interesting just falling short of it) was very much cemented.

Having him here was a dream of ours from the beginning, and a few weeks ago, after both of us had just finished Shoplifting From American Apparel, Melissa and I found ourselves (serendipitously?) at an event for The Rumpus, where Tao was reading.

In grand literary tradition, we cornered him after a few drinks and, well, as they say, the rest is history:

meaghan: SUP tao lin!
tao: happy valentine’s day
meaghan: Eeep!
tao:  what other contributors have you gotten?
meaghan: Um, we have Lorrie Moore…
tao: liar…
meaghan: JUST KIDDING, wouldn’t that be awesome? i would “die”
tao: yeah
meaghan: (was that a good use of scare quotes?)
tao: you should ask her. it was, good job
meaghan: Because i wouldn’t actually die.
tao: yes, good job. what’s going to be on the cover
meaghan: I thought you were?
tao: sweet…i have some sexy photos…on my photobooth
meaghan: HAH, send ‘em over.
tao: it should be a girl though, to increase sales maybe
meaghan: Ha. That’s “sexist”— oh wait are you supposed to only use one ’ vs “
tao: if you’re typing in all lowercase you’re supposed to use one ‘
meaghan: Ohhh, hahahahhahaa.
tao: yeah
meaghan: So my interviewy question is— why did you ‘agree’ to ‘contribute’ to this ‘book’?
tao: stephen elliott said yes, i saw something like $6k was raised, i feel impressed that one of the editors works for tumblr, and i thought it wouldn’t be ‘excruciating’ to write since i could just write something that happened, in first-person. and i remembered something you wrote about me, when you came to my reading at WORD. You said i was weird, i think.
meaghano: Oh yes, I said that you were super weird but hilarious.
tao: i had linked your post on my blog, like 2 years ago
meaghan: i know! i was sort of starstruck.
tao: i was glad you thought the things i read were funny
meaghan: Do you mean them to be? i always wonder that.
tao: i do
meaghan: You read so deadpan and sometimes i almost feel bad for laughing. i dont think i laugh at any readings as much as i do yours.
tao: i mean for it to be funny. sweet…
meaghan: oh PHEW. Do you laugh IRL ever? Are you laughing now?
tao: Yes, rarely, sort of. No, i’m sort of grinning a little
meaghan: That’s kind of sad?
tao: i laugh ‘on the inside,’ maybe.  i grin a lot
meaghan: Ah. Are you someone who says “that’s funny,” but doesn’t laugh (like Lorrie Moore says in gate at the stairs)?
tao: yes, sometimes. claire danes says that in…forgot the movie. the one with macualey culkin’s brother
meaghan: my so-called life? i wish
tao: When is the book coming out, do you think?
meaghan: Well, fundraising closes March 1, so probably mid-to-late April?
tao: nice. what’s the longest submission being published?
meaghan: I have no idea! We don’t have all of them yet!
tao: how long is stephen elliott’s?
meaghan: Hah wouldnt you like to know!
tao: hehe…
meaghan: (I think like 3 pages? maybe 4?) (Does that make you want to make yours longer?)
tao: i don’t know….mine is maybe 10 pages actually, currently. i want to ‘dominate’ the book, jk (sort of)
meaghan: HA. That isn’t a jk
tao: hehe… i feel like tumblr and twitter are owned by the same ‘parent company’….i know they aren’t
meaghan: Ha. So back to you! Your story is sort of like- “Things I Didn’t Come Out and Say in Shoplifting From American Apparel”
tao: Yeah
meaghan: which i thought was really interesting/cool
tao: interesting
meaghan: It was very meta at times, which i always appreciate.
binky.tabby: hm, didn’t think of that, but yeah. maybe i can be the new [someone] after this. john barth?
meaghan: Which one is he again? The balloon story guy?
tao: (jk) i think that’s donald barthelme
meaghan: Oh yeah!  I was close!
tao: this one doesnt have a main thing associated with him i think
meaghan: I’m glad you knew what i meant, though. I’m feeling pretty good about this interview.
tao: me too
meaghan: Even though i was totally confusing Barth and Barthelme
tao: that’s ok, same last name ‘pretty much’
meaghan: I kinda redeemed myself with the balloon thing.
tao: yeah, that was good. i only vaguely know what you’re talking about re: balloon thing
meaghan: You should name your kid Barth Elme. Then i will truly applaud you.
tao: Sort of like ‘esme’ re Salinger. that sounds good. elme, sounds really funny
meaghan: Do you like Salinger? Seems like you might ‘hate’ him.
tao: i haven’t read him in ~5 years, seems like i would like him ‘okay’
meaghan: Wait how old are you?
tao: 26
meaghan: ‘damn’. Do you feel weird writing about ‘sex’ or is it fine? Is it easier when someone asks you to?
tao: i like doing it
meaghan: Doing It or writing about sex?
tao: hehe…both i guess. damn
meaghan: Hahahaha. Got ya! So basically your story is telling us the stuff you kind of SKIPPED if you will in S.F.A.A.— why did you skip it?
tao: yes. for that particular scene, it seemed most emotional/satisfying to end before any sexual things had happened w/ that character
meaghan: Yeah, without it the scene definitely comes off more paralyzed.
tao: also, for the book in entirety it seemed more satisfying to skip all sex things, it ‘reinforced’ the ‘calm’ mood i wanted the book to have, to some degree.
meaghan: It’s this sort of refusal for a real narrative? I sound like an asshole. Nihilistic is too extreme, but, it’s more, Here are these every day things: yelling about red shirts, sitting on benches, not talking…
tao: i think the book doesn’t have a ‘contrived’ narrative, but that seems like something outside of not having sex in the book. wait, it does have a ‘contrived’ narrative, very much so, but it’s ‘contrived’ to be ‘not contrived’ (from the perspective of ppl who expect a book to have a kind of narrative
meaghan: Right, hah— a purposeful refusal of a traditional narrative-y narrative.
tao: i feel like i said all i have to say about sex, at this point, in terms of concrete description, in my nerve.com sex story,  so that’s another reason there isn’t sex in sfaa
meaghan: Ah, your story,  “Sex After Not Seeing Each Other For Awhile.” I liked the thing about a burrito in space, by the way. That was very sweet. Not sweet in the ‘sweet’ sense—  “HEARTWARMING.” And you sure do make us work for heartwarming.
tao: oh, good re ‘heartwarming’. it seems like some corporation should donate something like $25k [to the book project].
meaghan: Yeah maybe they will! Haha. Speaking of, what do you think about self-publishing? The Future?
tao: i dont know— to sell mad units you ‘need’ distribution to bookstores, and you get that through a publisher, who has deals with distributors. You could make a lot more money selling yourself, bypassing stores, though, so i think it would work just as well, doing it yourself, financially.
meaghan: It’s just a lot more work. But it is a fun experiment / experience. Experimence!
tao: yes. damn
meaghan: I know. I am on fire. Okay, so any last words / ideas / feelings / facial expressions?
tao: thanks for having me in the book.
meaghan: Thanks for being in the book! We are super excited you are going to be!
tao: i’m excited also, thanks
meaghan: and honored, etc, that you believe in it / us! ‘maybe’?
tao: yes of course i do

Maria Diaz is a writer, professional tv watcher and tv blogger — a lady of many sharp charms and talents, and someone I met because I asked twitter for her. Turns out she lived in the same city, also spent all day on her laptop (this was San Francisco in 2008), and we knew the same internet. Though Maria is not vegan, she has had sex with vegans. That is what her story and this interview is about (and stay ‘til the end for her love poem to you all).

1:04 PM
Maria: yes, let’s do this!
mgg: wheep!
so! maria!
1:05 PM we lost you to the cold midwest. but oberlin is one of my favorite places. i have the diary i hauled all over campus when i was a ‘prospie’ sitting right on my desk right now.
have you told people there about C&C?
Maria: not yet!
mgg: it feels ‘very oberlin’ as a project
Maria: omg it’s SO oberlin
1:06 PM in my creative writing class yesterday, we had to tell an anecdote and the one thing one guy decided to tell was about very violent sex
this was the first day of class, mind you
so i think this is the right crowd for it!
mgg: i definitely got laid in the arb so.
i concur!
1:07 PM Maria: ha! the arb!
mgg: and one of our very first backers is a guy who used to have a performance art project where he blasted industrial music in the kitchen at harkness while standing in a huge tofu mixer, pouring soy milk over his body, clad only in a black apron
without oberlin, we’d be nothing!
are there hella vegans?
Maria: yes!
1:08 PM mgg: is there a vegansexual movement?
Maria: but i don’t know if the vegansexuals have a group yet
maybe it’s the “animal rights” group
and vegansexuality is their true agenda
mgg: i wonder where their agenda falls on honey
1:09 PM or on lube
Maria: only okay in oral sex?
there are vegan lubes!
mgg: i mean, i know there is vegan lube.
Maria: jinxxx!
mgg: JINX
so you are fighting fire with fire in your story
1:10 PM the subject is a guy who wrote a vegansexual manifesto
which he showed you after sex?
has he seen your piece?
Maria: he showed me after the sex, the morning after
he was very proud of his writing
1:11 PM he showed me several clips, like he was pitching me, almost
mgg: HA
BLOGGER!
Maria: EXACTLY! always be closing!
mgg: /dies
Maria: he has seen my piece because this anonymous dude who reads my blog sent it to him
trying to start a fight
mgg: oh of COURSE
Maria: but he has never contacted me
1:12 PM i thought he would since his words are so precious to him
mgg: i’m not sure what’s more wounding — the description of his sexual skillessness, or the dis on his writing
1:13 PM actually
Maria: both are bad, but his lack of skills were what did it
mgg: it’s sort of yelpy
to advance the food theme for a sex
*sec
like, the san francisco cult of yelp, which i can’t read this story without imagining
like, the way they would be all up on a restaurant (like the one where the story starts) opening w/o a liquor license
1:14 PM and the drama of that
Maria: or a place that serves foie gras
mgg: exactly
so why not review his plating technique, as it were
Maria: well, that’s part of what made me so pissed. like how dare he say that shit to me when he wasn’t even any good!?
mgg: writers!
Maria: you must avoid them
1:15 PM mgg: because you never know
san francisco was so good for providing opportunities for memoir that way
1:16 PM Maria: oh man, yes.
there’s a type you can only find there
i think this guy has moved onto an animal sanctuary
mgg: and the local writing scene was a little more brazen about how essentially you were all just reporting back on fucking one another
Maria: where he can be pure and avoid animal product cemeteries like me
1:17 PM mgg: i am sure his helio gets perfect service there
Maria: or his motorola Razr
let’s be real!
mgg: was that a bonus for you, in doing the piece? that he might see it?
1:18 PM stephen elliott tried to say that he’d never fuck someone just to write about it
i’m not in that camp, not really
but then that you can make up for awful sex by bringing a story out from it —
1:19 PM Maria: yeah, kind of
just so he could learn something?
i just didn’t want to participate in any earnest email discussions about his moral beliefs
mgg: But what about you?
Did you get anything out of it — as a lady, as a writer?
1:20 PM Maria: yes! it’s a great story, and i’m kind of in your camp, that out of any awful situation, you can at least get a story out of it
and in thinking where i was mentally that night, it was proving to myself that i could want something and get it, even if the result wasn’t amazing
sometimes a lady needs to do that
1:21 PM mgg: which most people would say is so unladylike
1:22 PM but this where i look back to patti smith and joan didion and propose, once you write at all as a woman, whether it’s about sex or not, you are taking a willful step outside of polite society
1:23 PM which is better than being in a workshop when it’s nice out?
do you have writing project plans while out there?
1:24 PM Maria: yes, i’m taking this great class called “concepts of scene” which is all about story telling
so i’ll have a lot of writing to do, just for that
this place lends itself well to writing, because there is literally nothing else to do but that, drink cheap beer and eat tofu
1:26 PM mgg: or drive to Cleveland to buy porn
thank god some college towns have a sense of history about them!
maria, where can people find you on the internet right now?
(outside of gchat)
Maria: my tumblr! which is at onesharpbroad but gchat is where i take visitors
1:27 PM like a lady does
mgg: i will pass that along.
and thank you for the story — i’m editing it now (with a submission we got that i can’t believe we got, which has phrases like “went down” and “cum” in quotes, with all sincerity.)

Emily Gould used to say that, but with yoga, (YOGA!) in her (on her? I never know with the Internet) blog— she and her friends would ask each other, “is the yoga was working today?” and they would say yes or no, depending how easily pissed off or enlightened they were feeling.

That’s what I say in my head lately when near-strangers start to open up to us about sex in ways they probably wouldn’t have if I hadn’t just said the words “coming” and “crying” so close to each other in a sentence: “Ooh! The sex book is working!”

We went over to Kickstarter HQ last week to be interviewed for their podcast and found ourselves drinking beer and talking about how one of them [REDACTED] used to talk about porn with his dad and then there I was admitting to someone at this venerable dream-making web enterprise how i used to sneak with an old friend to watch her older brothers porn when I was a kid and then soon we were all laughing and being forthcoming in a way you usually only are with good friends. Storytelling about sex is so relieving in a way (although I am Catholic and could have 1000 conversations like this and never feel completely RELIEVED as it were), to be able to blush a little bit but remind each other that all these secret shames are nearly universal.

The next night I had dinner with A Friend From the Internet who I had never met but who was in town and particularly wonderful and we found ourselves talking for hours about relationships and sex and all that, in this old friends way, that I’m pretty sure never would have happened if it weren’t for this. To knock down that wall, well, that’s all i ever want to do.

And so now all of our contributor calls have been put out, and our deadline for stories is next Friday and so everybody is writing their way through the cold nights and joking with us about, “Is masturbation okay? I haven’t had sex in 7 months!” or, “How long can this be? I’m not even to the part about blow jobs yet!” and it is a lovely image, really, to think that everybody is hunched over their laptops in solidarity, mining old wounds and fun memories, thinking about how they felt and how they feel now about it all.

We have lots of great contributors lined up, some new rewards to kick it back into high gear (I feel so lame when I am like, Let’s kickstart this! Oh wait, that’s the name of the site! I am so lame!).

So hi secret blogfriends! We want to meet all of you and hear your stories.

My coworker today was saying how he feels bad for me, having to hear everyone’s boring sex stories and I stopped and thought, what? THIS IS MY ULTIMATE FANTASY YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.

Please everyone, tell me too much.

Tess Lynch lives out in LA, grew up in New York, can currently be found on your television starring in a Crest™ Commericial (!!!), and is one of my favorite writers on the world wide web. She’s hilarious, smart, genuine, and oftentimes delightfully, well, weird. Ya know, in a good way. A good, smart way. The best way! One of my favorite examples of the Tess Lynch Good-Weird are her much-beloved Fake Dinner Party Conversations, wherein she pretend-invites real characters into her actual home to have imaginary conversations and then writes about them.

Naturally, we thought this was the best way to introduce her:

Tess, Meaghan, William Shakespeare and Judy Blume are sitting around a conference table.

Meaghan: So, Tess, how do you feel about the ambiguity of writing for the internet? You know, considering yourself a writer, but fighting the distinction of “writer versus blogger,” creating an audience yourself as opposed to —

William Shakespeare: Bring forth my vittles, for this is a celebration that calls each son of man to dine and imbibe the finest distillation of the grapes of our labor!

Judy Blume: Yeah, where’s the dinner? Isn’t this a dinner party?

Tess: No no, it’s an interview. You guys are going to ask me questions.

William Shakespeare: But what countrywoman, who sayest thou thou art?

Tess: I’m Tess Lynch. I’m contributing to Coming & Crying.

Judy Blume: David Lynch? I’ve heard of him.

Meaghan: This is kind of what I was getting at with my question. About writing versus blogging.

Tess: It’s hard to accept the possibility of the decline of paperbacks, libraries, and dust jackets. It’s really hard. But at the same time, I think I’m in a better position because of blogging than I would be if it were just me with a scroll and a quill.

[William Shakespeare nods in appreciation.]

Tess: [cont’d] Being able to visualize your audience — and, often, you’re part of their audience, because you follow them on Tumblr or read them in The Awl or This Recording — makes you willing to open up to them in a way you can’t with print. There is, you know, a sense of community. It makes me optimistic about the validity of new media. That’s why your book is so exciting!

Judy Blume: Thank you.

Tess: I was talking to Meaghan.

Judy Blume: What book is this?

Meaghan: A non-fiction sex anthology. Actually, Judy, Tess and I both thought of you as a kind of milestone sex writer. You taught us a lot.

Judy Blume: Why, Meaghan — I’m touched.

Meaghan: Yeah, it was basically you and, you know, the instructions in our mom’s tampon boxes.

William Shakespeare: And also Othello.

Tess: That didn’t make the list.

William Shakespeare: This interview creeps at a petty pace.

Meaghan: Next one was…[shuffles notecards]…Judy, close your ears for a second.

Judy Blume: Why?

Meaghan: I feel like you’re going to be offended. Don’t be offended!

[Judy Blume earmuffs]

Meaghan: [cont’d] You used to mock the sex scenes in Forever, right?

Tess: Totally. The ski trip! But I feel like Forever was also the most honest account of sex, in a way. Judy, you can listen now. Like what’s that book’s equivalent now? I don’t think there is one. Twilight is the opposite. In sixth grade my friends and I would read parts of Forever aloud to make each other uncomfortable. But how explicit it was is so relatable.

William Shakespeare: Just like in Othello!

Tess: I think this book is brave. It’s easy to get around writing about sex, and maybe that’s what makes it awkward to read, sometimes. But it’s also the parts you skip to, dog-ear. They make you feel something. And it’s great to get the opportunity to get this volume as a real-life book, because sex is more sexy when it’s not on a computer screen.

Judy Blume: That was my thinking with Summer Sisters.

I discovered Lou the way we discovered most of our contributors: online. His Tumblr took me to his Flickr, and soon I showed him my secret blog, and we started talking excitedly about collaborating on a project like this one. As I mention below in our IM interview, his photos are honest and compassionate and beautiful— you want to be seen the way Lou sees people. There is an intimacy at work that I hope you’ll find threaded into our book.


meaghan: Hi Lou!
louobedlam: Hi meaghan!
meaghan: It’s funny we are talking on IM for your interview because I remember us IMing for hours before I met you. I had found your work on the Internet, and you mine
louobedlam: we used to IM so hard
meaghan: We did. You were very meta about it— about Getting To Know Someone Online
louobedlam: Getting to Know Someone in person is complex enough. Add in the filters of internet communication? oy veysmer.
meaghan: But then we met! IRL!
louobedlam: i picked you up from the airport. You were adorable.
meaghan: You did! I let a stranger from the Internet pick me up at the airport. (Sorry Mom!) And then you took my picture in the parking lot and I freaked out but it was a nice picture.
louobedlam: I’ve got it on my wall!
meaghan: I’ve got it on my Facebook Wall. It’s actually my Profile Picture. I think that speaks multitudes of your skillz
louobedlam: Aw. That’s awesome
meaghan: Oh yes, tell the fine ppl about your Creepy Polaroid Wall
louobedlam: thanks for putting it in that frame
meaghan: Ha, I’m just here to make you look good
louobedlam: I’ve been taking Polaroids since 1996, been putting them up on my wall about that long. Different apartments, always a wall of Polaroids.
meaghan: Wow! In 1996 I was 12. I was taking— notes in Pre-Algebra.
louobedlam: Thanks. Right now? 1154 or so.
meaghan: Damn! So you share a lot of your work online
louobedlam: online…man, that has really made me the man i am today
meaghan: Would it be fair to say that. the Internet is how most people find your work?
louobedlam: EVERYONE
meaghan: Those of us not so lucky to find ourselvesin your bedroom
louobedlam: Oh, you. Online I find models, the occasional paying gig. Most of the folks I photograph, I found on Flickr or Tumblr. Lots of good folks, lots of good friends.
meaghan: So the internet means a lot to both of us. It’s a nice springboard for meeting people and doing stuff offline, which is where the real magic is
louobedlam: as weird as it is for interpersonal communication, you sure do get to meet MORE people through it
meaghan: Because you can’t take pictures of your computer. Or you could but they would only be so interesting
louobedlam: i like the ladies.
meaghan: I’m glad we cleared that up.
louobedlam: IN CASE ANYONE WAS CONFUSED
meaghan: Dames.
louobedlam: Ladies or dames. Never girls. Never did understand how folks let “girl” just slide into the lexicon, especially folks so intent on properly framing themsevles.
meaghan: You are a stickler for language.
louobedlam: i think it’s important. Words have weight, man.
meaghan: Yes! I think that’s why we want to do this book
louobedlam: People listen to you. You are…A ROLE MODEL
meaghan: EEEP! I remember talking to you about this book a long time ago, when we first started talking. I think finding your work and so many others on flickr and tumblr, showed us all that people were doing real honest, brave work that, well, is really worth something. And! You had made a book before! (ed: Portraits of Pretty People)
louobedlam: i did! There’s definitely something more potent about a physical object.
meaghan: Yes! As photographers well know.
louobedlam: That’s the thing. I don’t know if photographers really value the physical object like they used to
meaghan: But there is nothing like a polaroid (or a wall of 1200 of them!) or hanging up a print on your wall
louobedlam: Nothing like holding the object, the art, in your hands. Being able to affect that—
meaghan: Although, as I’m sure you have experienced, that stuff can be expensive and a lot of work to print, to mail, etc…But it is worth it, right!
louobedlam: Yep, lots of hassle— and well worth it.
meaghan: I think the inherent thing we are all trying to say is, “It is worth it! Remember? This is awesome!”
louobedlam: Making something, the act of creation? there’s nothing like it. And with a physical artifact? You hold it in your hands, you get a sense of the work put in
meaghan: There is a legitimacy maybe?
louobedlam: Yeah, that’s a good word for it. If it’s physical, it exists.
meaghan: The fact that you honored it enough to bring it into the world quite literally
louobedlam: it’s real in a way 1s and 0s aren’t. Exactly.
meaghan: Although we do love 1s & 0s. It’s a complicated relationship for the internet-savvy artist… the web lets us meet all these people, share our work instantly, get support—
louobedlam: Lets us meet and interact and discover and experience, but it’s just a little bit removed from Reality.
meaghan: Indeed. Easy to sit on IM all day and forget to Make Things
louobedlam: Totally. They supplement each other, but neither should be ignored.
meaghan: We are very lucky though to have friends like us who remind each other of that, though.
louobedlam: I don’t think so. It’s not luck. We put it out there.
meaghan: Ah!
louobedlam: We actively seek the kinds of people who’d remind us of these kinds of things. We create, and that helps bring like-minded creators to us.
meaghan: I am reading this Twyla Tharp book, The Creative Habit,  and she says luck plays a role in art but you have to be prepared and be skilled and work hard to recognize when those kind of opportunities arise, and be brave enough to seize upon them.
louobedlam: Totally. You have to be ready for the opportunities.
meaghan: Hooray! Okay last thing. Let’s talk about your photography. I’ve heard you talk about it but maybe you’d be better to elaborate but, your aim is to capture a part of them- to communicate through your work, an intimate part of them or an integral part of their Self that maybe not everyone would see right away?
louobedlam: I try to take honest pictures. I take all kinds of photos now, but the ones I love, the kind I keep coming back to, are the ones where I’m attempting to get something honest, something real, from the model.
meaghan: they seem to be honest, but with a compassion. You look at them and you want to be seen that way.
louobedlam: Yeah, it’s nothing w/o the sharing. For me, sharing it is just as important— the response, how well i was able to communicate what i saw
meaghan: Right. And what about n00dz? I know you have a sort of complicated view of that. You don’t want to take pictures that people just look at because there are boobs there…
louobedlam: Yeah, that one…taking nudes, you know it will attract attention, and a very specific type of attention. Sometimes, nudity is more honest. I think with the women i shoot, it is. But sometimes it’s an excellent way to obscure— there is nudity that can be used as a decoy.
meaghan: Somewhat counter-intuitively?
louobedlam: You’re so busy staring, you don’t notice what’s going on.
meaghan: What do you want people to notice, feel when they see your pictures (nude or no)
louobedlam: i’d like them to come away having been affected- that they see something in the photo that gives them the feeling they get/grok/understand that person,
if only in the moment they were photographed
meaghan: Yes. I think that’s a lot of the reason for this book, too!
louobedlam: My take on the book— it’s trying to put a real, honest, authentic face on something that’s not often gone down those roads. It’s not often you Connect w/erotica. Because it’s poorly written, or fake, or just ridiculous. That’s not the fault of sex, it’s the fault of the writing, of the corrupt intent to titillate instead of affect.
meaghan: Yeah. It’s just different. It’s a hard thing to write about— in that you have to really be vulnerable to do it well.
louobedlam: Isn’t that true for art in general? for really good art?
meaghan: I think so! Like David Foster Wallace said,  to talk out of that part of yourself that can love rather than the part that wants to be loved.
louobedlam: Yeah, that’s a really good quote.
meaghan: *bow*
louobedlam: ahahahha
meaghan: hahahah

meaghan 

I have never met Katie West, but I feel intimately connected to her through her writing and photography. Time and again her work reminds me why we need to do this project. It reminds me that there are people out there doing this, people out there being brave, reporting back as they fumble through life, just like the rest of us. I interviewed her on Gchat because this is the Internet and this is what we do.

meaghan: So you are so far our only photographer AND writer contributor. I think I found you through your photography, but then soon found your writing, and loved that, too.
katiewest: i am multitalented. this is true.
meaghan: Very.
katiewest: ha!
meaghan: I think what’s pretty interesting, or amazing really, is that it’s sort of the same, whether writing or photography, it’s the same You, I tend to be affected similarly. I feel like I am encountering the same Self; a similar vulnerability.
katiewest: Yeah, I think because I use both as a sort of self expression. Though I’ve always liked writing more, but photography is easier.

meaghan: Do you feel that way, that it’s your same Self coming though? I guess it makes sense when you are being very honest in your work, when it’s more than a persona.

katiewest: I think I find writing to be more personal, for some reason. Even though I can tell and show just as much in writing as I can in a photo, it just seems more valuable to me.
meaghan: What scares you more? does anything scare you? When you hit publish do you close your eyes sometimes?
katiewest: Oh my god yes.
meaghan: hahaha ME TOO
katiewest: I keep things in my Draft folder for WEEKS sometimes before i hit publish
meaghan: What do you say to yourself before you hit post or publish or whatever it is? What keeps you going, what’s the pep talk?
katiewest: Well, usually I’ve been looking at it for weeks, changing things, rearranging things. And when I finally realize that the last couple times I’ve looked at it, I haven’t changed anything, I convince myself that it’s okay to hit publish. That maybe someone else might like it. Maybe. But I like it, and I wrote it to be shared so I should just hit publish…..*silence* Okay. Fine. *hits publish*
meaghan: i think people might be surprised to think that we DO sometimes have drafts online
katiewest: yeah, the internet is supposed to be all instant posting, no thinking, no drafts
meaghan: Yea! and as much as the internet allows for that, people certainly respond when we put a little more time, a little more of ourselves, into things. I know I am very thankful when you post a longer story. Ya know? I get excited to see that in my dashboard.
katiewest: The internet responds very intensely to people who put themselves out there onto the internet. You could be generating amazing content on the internet, but when it’s devoid of any information about the creator and of some sort of SELF then people don’t like it as much. It seems….
meaghan: They really do. Yes, I mean what’s the point of this whole democratizing of who gets to share their voice if you don’t take risks with it? and as distant and posturing and ‘clever’ a lot of internet writing can be, I think we have found that people are hungry for those risks. So, do you ever regret stuff— want to take stuff down? I know I have a few times.
katiewest: um, sometimes i’ll think about it if something is really personal and i think the person i wrote it about will realize it’s about them.
meaghan: Hahaha yeaaah.
katiewest: ha, and then i’ll usually email them and say, “hey i know that thing i just wrote seems like it’s about you. but it’s not, okay?”
meaghan: I’m sure they usually know. Haha sometimes I title things, “This is Not About You.” I kind of want to title everything i write that.
katiewest: ha, i know! Because it also happens that i’ll write something, or title a photo something and i get 5 emails asking me if that was about them, and it wasn’t about ANYONE.
meaghan: Ha. Do you ever feel like, “Okay. Here goes. I am choosing my art over this relationship.” Sometimes when i write about someone part of me feels like i am putting the nail in the coffin. Like ol’ Joan Didion said, ‘Writers are always selling somebody out.’ How do you work through that in your head?
katiewest: Ah, yes, i often feel like i’m selling the people i write about out. i’ll try to hide them, mix them up with other people, so no one can find themselves in my work, but everyone can find themselves in my work.
meaghan: But also, everyone can recognize themselves in your work, in that universal way that we are always aiming for. I reconcile that way a lot— that that somehow is worth more. But is it? I am unsure.
katiewest: But i mean, that’s what i want to write about. I want to write about things that affected me. about instances that wore me out, and broke me and that made me feel really fucking horny.
meaghan: I am very glad you want to write about that, and do. Because i think those are the things, the times when people feel most isolated—- The Things We Don’t Usually Talk About. I try to hope, or at least pretend, that they agree, that they think it’s Worth It. And when I know they won’t approve, I remind myself that my writing will always be there for me and that I can’t get that guarantee from them.
katiewest: That’s a good point. i guess it depends on who the person is and how they are. some people i know like it a lot. other people, pretend not to, but do. other people really don’t, but can still appreciate it. And look at how well people respond to Things We Don’t Usually Talk About!
meaghan: Some people like it too much, too. Ha. I had someone recently tell me he wanted to sleep with me so i would write beautifully about it. i told him that was immoral.
katiewest: ha! are you sure?
meaghan: Yes! hahahahahahaa.
katiewest: though sometimes i want to have horrible relationships just so i can write beautifully about them, so…
meaghan: Eep. I think it’s that sometimes i willingly go into things comforting myself with the idea that, even if this is hard, i want to Know.  I want to explore this, because i want to know about people and the world.
katiewest: yeah, i know what you mean. i know when i’m making mistakes, but sometimes do it anyway, just because i want to be there, want to be that girl, want to know if i can. then what do i make of myself?
meaghan: Writing’s our consolation? I guess that’s reductive.
katiewest: hmm…writing’s our no, no i don’t think it’s consolation i think writing’s our i don’t know. i want to say gift, but that sounds not right. It’s how we offer ourselves up to others. It’s how we get through ourselves and connect. We’re a bit fucked up maybe? Communicating with sex and broken hearted mumblings. Because i want to connect. I don’t want to feel alone. i want people to email me after i post something and say yes, that. i know exactly what that feels like. and i sigh and say, look at us! not alone here!
meaghan: I think that’s why writing about sex is so tied up in that, why I feel compelled to report back from the front lines so to speak. because it’s like- guys, world, look, we’re trying, and failing, and also connecting in amazing, transcendent ways, and sometimes not, and sometimes laughing and sometimes not. but we all are! I try to remind myself every time when I am trying to be brave, to remember the deeper you go, the more recognition, the chance at someone saying, Ah! Yes!
katiewest: do people email you and say, “Your work is so…so…human.”
meaghan: Sure.
katiewest: i always liked that. that somehow being human was really hard, and brave, and courageous and took balls.
meaghan: Hah it’s a sad state of affairs when “HUMAN” is this great elusive thing
katiewest: right? but so now being human is being honest and vulnerable and open? letting people reach you?
meaghan: That’s why it’s funny when people make this big thing about talking about sex, about it being so taboo, and i just want to say, THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE. THIS IS THE DRIVING FORCE OF LIFE. The question isn’t how can we talk about it so openly, it’s how can other people not?!
katiewest: it’s the original SIN, Meaghan. we’re going to HELL. and we’re LADIES.
meaghan: Sometimes when i cringe or second guess myself i just remember, I AM A PERSON. I WILL AFFRONT YOU WITH MY PERSONHOOD. My ‘humanity’ haha
katiewest: we can’t get excited about a cock and describe how it feels when it fills us.
meaghan: Eep! But yeah, people have been getting filled with cocks for millennia.
katiewest: but! you know what we do is different than just describing that, exactly, you know?
meaghan: there should be a DIALOGUE
katiewest: MORE THAN COCK
meaghan: right. it’s the cock, but it’s how you got there and what went through your mind and how you felt after
katiewest: right, like what you wrote the other day about what you were thinking about while he was on top of you, and you were looking at him, squinting wondering if you still knew him, or if you ever did. I loved that.
meaghan: *hopes he isn’t reading this* ahahaaa
katiewest: oh yeah..uhhhhh…
me: So! We have been talking about this whole Coming&Crying thing probably since our first few conversations. We both know this whole, idea of sharing yourself like that, not skipping the good parts, or the scary parts, is important, and I know you are always working to that, towards that, and in that spirit, but why do you think it should be a book?
katiewest: I think for many reasons, not all of them exactly justifiable. But it legitimizes it. Having it in print, even if we do it ourselves, proves we were right somehow. In my brain it does anyway. And I think people like print, the people who need this book like print. They like libraries and look at pictures of bookshelves on their tumblrs and long to have more themselves.
meaghan: Yeah, something about it says, hey! this is real!
katiewest: And I think it has to do with what it’s all about; it’s a way to connect. It’s a very intimate way to connect. Reading a good book on the subway feels very intimate to me. You do it alone, you do it in your own head, but you’re still connecting with something complicated and involved and possibly, possibly life-changing.